Hey guys...

Hey listen, guys... I was wondering if you guys would please ban me?

I feel really bad about all the stuff that happened, and I feel sad about all this... but, um... it's just one of those things that seems like the right thing to do. I know you guys tend to not see eye to eye with me on what "the right thing" is, but I guess I'm just trying to listen to my conscience and my heart.

I'm very confused at my feelings now, it feels kinda like a break up in a weird, pathetic way (drama queenish, I guess, but that's how I honestly feel)... I have been with you guys for years, but at the same time I feel a little hurt (I know, you guys think I'm too sensitive about this stuff). So, I guess what I am trying to say is I love you and I'll miss the old days, and I hope you guys won't remember me too harshly.

If anyone wants to keep in touch (please, not to argue... only to stay friends or be supportive and understanding of one another as best we can), I'm at HardRockSoul@aol.com

I want to publicly say thanks to Jason, who did try to make amends with me after everything... we called a truce and stuff. And I know that he's a good guy, so in my eyes me and him are cool now.

with love.
Elizabeth

:sad:

I don't understand Elizabeth?

I mean, this whole thing was perplexing from the beginning...and now you say that you and Jason are cool...and as far as I know he was the only person who made comments that you saw as mysogonystic...why do you want us to ban you?

I mean it's obvious that you don't really want to leave, or you wouldn't need us to ban you to do it.

Plus, we heard from Be that you thought that Sweet was banned...I hope this isn't why you are doing this, because it isn't even close to true. Sweet is having computer problems. This place NEEDS YOU HERE!!! So what if you can be sensitive or opinionated or whathaveyou...THAT'S YOUR JOB!!! It's part of who you are and is an integral part of what makes this place work!

Hell, I can be even more opinionated and I'm crotchety to boot! The people that love me understand this...accept it...and even love me FOR it...it makes me feel loved and understood to know that regardless of whatever drama that we may go through...the love is unconditional. This is exactly what I feel in this place, and you should too.

I once told you that I could never be upset with you because of your strong opinions and insistance on defending them...because all of the women in my life are of the same strong type. This has not changed! I admit that in my seething anger at Tinker I lost sight of that for a minute...and I appologized and have promised a more detailed and in-depth appology when I have the time. I have been working 20 hour days since I got back from Miami, but I promise that I will get to it soon.

I don't know why either you or Joshua thought that people were jumping on you. I don't think there is an admin or even a veteran member here that would allow that to happen. I really wish that you would go back over all the posts that were involved in this subject so you could gather a better understanding of how perceptions got all skewed. I know it helped me with the Tinker crap.

Please please PLEASE Elizabeth don't leave! This is your home on the net, and it would seem cold and empty without you.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

this place will not survive if people like you want to be banned..lets stick together :grouphug:

I didn't try to resolve this just to turn around and ban you

I thought we were all a family here, yet we continue to forget that and try to escape instead of working through things. We don't want to lose you Liz, we can't afford to you lose you either. We all have a right to our feelings and opinions regardless of if they don't coincide with anyone elses. No one wants you to stop being you to fit in, you fit in just being you as it is. The same goes for Luis, and anyone else wanting to leave. I thought we created the drama room for these types of things. If you want to argue or yell about something, we can take it there to work it out, not to escalate it and get upset. No one needs to leave because they disagree with anyone else, not Coz, not Hax, not even Be. You won't be banned for it, you won't be hated for it. How could you? If we all agreed on everything we'd never have anything to talk about, we'd all have the same stories, the same feelings. It's not true and it doesn't work. I don't personally approve of the whole gay marriage things, but hey..that's my opinion. Do I expect to be bitched at by those that do? No I don't. Would I expect to be banned if Coz or Hax did? No because it's just what I think. If someone wants to know why I feel the way I do they can ask, but they shouldn't jump on me for it. Now if like Tinker, I was constantly trying to push what I think on everyone and won't stop even when asked, warned, confined and given a second chance then, sure, ban me. If two people can't agree on something, anything, then they really have to agree to disagree instead of just fighting back and forth. No one has ALL the facts about anything, unless it's about you personally, SO...you may know something, I may have heard different...it happens..it will continue to happen, and not just with us here. I know I don't want you to leave, and I don't think you'll find a single person here that does. If you're still upset about something, lets air it out and move on. If you just need a break, then that's fine too, take a few days..hell a week or two if you have to. It's not fair to you to leave, when like Coz said we can tell you don't want to.

"I hope you look at me, with patient eyes.."

"I want to publicly say thanks to Jason, who did try to make amends with me after everything... we called a truce and stuff. And I know that he's a good guy, so in my eyes me and him are cool now.
"

I don't see why there's a problem??

If you two are cool.

Then it's all ok.

You can't go :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I will keep crying unless you stay :grouphug: :grouphug:

Elizabeth , I don't know you all to well but it would mean a lot if you stayed. You leaving doesn't make this a better place and no one here wants you to leave. If you feel you must go then i understand but if this is the case, i ,much like everyone else will be quite sad to see you leave. Passionate intelligent folks don't fall of tree's.....if they did they'd be used as weapons...(where was i going with this?)

In a nutshell. I hope you choose to stay. Someone has got to keep Coz in line...... :happysad:

I have to agree with everyone here, Elizabeth. We all love you, and we want you to stay. This place would not be the same without you. I am so sorry that this whole incident has made you so upset. And if I did or said anything to add to your sadness, I apologize sincerely. I just HATE to see people fight, and get angry. But unfortunately, it happens sometimes.

Please keep in mind that sometimes, when people are upset and angry, they say things that they really don't mean...things that they later regret.

I am sure that nobody here had any intention of upsetting you!! PLEASE, DON'T LEAVE US! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

EEELLLIIIZZZAAABBBEEETTTHHH!!!! STAY HERE!!! DON'T GO!!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Of course, if I didn't find myself banned you knew that I would come back to read this...

My heart is being pulled in different directions because on the one hand I still love you guys for my past feelings of us, but on the other hand, what I feel I have just witnessed is total support of Jason and nada for me or Sweet... I just felt that we had a fair reason to defend ourselves (even if Jason didn't mean us, specifically... we still felt the need to speak up), and those who did say something to us were telling us how wrong WE were to feel that way (and I'm thinking... is this the Twilight Zone? How bizarre is this...), and those who said something to Jason were giving him back-up for having THE RIGHT to speak (something I thought we all had)... and then there were those who just didn't speak at all (maybe too afraid to choose sides, who knows). And when Joshua came on to try to defend me, people had to argue with him. All the man knew was that his girl came to him bawling about how her friends weren't being nice or fair to her... he didn't really have to know the he-said-she-said from any other perspective. He trusts my perspective... I usually perceive situations accurately in his eyes. In my own defense, I think reading people is one of my only true gifts, so I'm not trying to claim I know everyone's motives... just that it would really surprise me if I misinterpreted on such a massive scale.

I've re-read things, trying to understand, in vain. You see, to me, my friends should have still been sensitive to my feelings. Instead of "Jason has feelings, too. It is more like YOU are attacking JASON." , at the very least, there could have been more of a feel of "Elizabeth... I didn't realize you felt that way. Maybe this was a misunderstanding. We're sorry if you were hurt by all this..." It seemed like my people were flat out cold to me, and I just wanted SOMEBODY (besides Joshua, bless his heart) to say ANYTHING good or positive toward me or Sweet.

I had spoken with her on the phone, and the only conclusion we could come to about all this was that maybe Jason was being shown favoritism because he funds the board. I know you guys are gonna disagree and say that's not it... but we were just so blown away with the reactions here that nothing else made sense to us. And we are not what I would consider illogical or dim-witted people. We can see things for what they are, from all that I have seen and can tell.

She also made a great point-- that if you go back and read the things that were said by Jason and in Jason's defense/support as if they were aimed at Coz's wife (instead of she or I), there would have been some much different reactions. This is probably a far better analogy than the one I had given about racism. We know how much Coz loves and respects his wife (as well he should! he would totally be in the right to react on her behalf), and we felt that we deserved such great respect, being as we were the ladies of this forum, or at least just as friends.

And I was so disappointed to find "No Life" was put as her title. All she ever did was try to stick up for herself, and she was peaceful all along about it. She continues to speak highly of everyone, even though I still think she is pissed at people (mainly Jason, I believe). More peaceful than I was! And that was what she got? I just can't understand it. I felt like I didn't know you guys anymore. I felt like it was all some crazy illusion.

So now, even though I feel that me and Jason are cool and capable of being friendly and civil to one another, I have to face the bitterness and anger I feel about people not being caring of MY feelings, which are worth just as much as Jason's, at least. I know I don't pay for this forum to be up, but I thought I counted. I thought Sweet counted. She's an even more peaceful, laid back, accepting woman than I am. If you should be begging anyone to stay, it's her. I'm too touchy. She is mature and classy. And she was sorely mistreated in my book. I just want us to have the respect we deserve. You don't want to pick sides? You think the thing for which we are fighting isn't really an issue at all? If that's true, fine... so be sensitive of everyone's feelings. Don't pick the guy who is seemingly the cold one (sorry Jason, not intended to reopen anything, just intended to convey how I felt about our previous posts). And no, I don't really want to go back and cut and paste things. I mean, if you guys seriously CANNOT see where the hell I am coming from on this, I will go ahead and take the time to make a list of all the things that came off mean, as where we were just trying to be fair... but it'll take me hours to refer to everything in context with what I'M saying... so if you really can feel me and my emotions are not so hard to understand to you guys, save us all the time and effort in reading and writing. Let's spare each other unless you find it totally necessary.

The point is, I wanted people to support me the way they supported Jason, because I deserved as much and so did Sweet. Even if you can't honestly "side" with us and stick up for our "cause", at the very damn least I would want equal support for having human feelings too (just like Jason). If he wants to be bitter to females and THAT is okay, then I can be bitter towards HIM and that's okay, right? And we can all still kiss and make up at the end of the day... wasn't that supposed to be the idea? So where did our love go? Where did our support for having feelings go? Jason and I understand that we can piss each other off and it can all be okay in the end, but I don't get moral support for this. Well :wtf:

I guess I'm done with my venting for now. I appreciate the nice feelings... I feel like now you guys are giving me more of the respect that I felt I deserved to begin with, and I'm glad that you at least seem to care... but I'm gonna be truthful... If I do end up coming back here it will only be if I think that everyone will give me the same respects they give one another (including Jason), and I know you don't think you need to oblige me, but my heart just tells me that dammit-- I need explanations! I want to know why I wasn't good enough to be supported, regardless of anyone's stand on the topic. If you guys really do empathize with me and care for me, and if I do end up coming back 'cause of this, I gotta be honest... you know of Be Bastard? It's gonna be like Elizabeth Bitch... 'cause I might not try to watch my words so carefully anymore... I can be brutally honest and make no apologies, I can play hardball with the big boys. 'Cause before, I was respectful and conscientious of the feelings of others, and I held my tongue... but I WILL unleash some Scorpio nature on you cats if you want to tangle! :madrant:

alright. I'm done. All I really want is some love... :grouphug: (in the form of justice)... I think Sweet deserves the same, without a doubt. I'll read what you guys have to say, and make some choices as I go. You're right-- I don't want to leave. Because I just can't believe I was wrong about my "friends". I hope I am not forced to believe it, but sometimes reality is hard, so I am prepared to take this emotional beating again. Yeah, I know this is just online, and most of us haven't even met in person... but at my current stage in life, you guys were the closest friends I had aside from Josh and the baby... which is why this seems to be such a production to those of you who say you're so unfazed by all this. I guess we'll just have to see.

love
Elizabeth

you are saying you are hurt based on something that i dont believe is true..so thats why i dont give any credence 2 it

<<you are saying you are hurt based on something that i dont believe is true>>

I'm hurt based on the fact that 1. mean things were said of women, and I happen to be a women and 2. no one said anything in support of me or Sweet, whether for the sake of women or just the sake of our right to speak our minds. What part do you not agree with?

<<..so thats why i dont give any credence 2 it >>

... so that's why you don't give any credence to MY hurt feelings. So therefore, since you can't comprehend these hurt feelings I am expressing, my feelings don't count in your opinion.

But, you obviously give credence to Jason's hurt feelings toward women. I hate double standards.

Elizabeth

u gotta put the comments in context? were mean things really said about woman? no i dont believe so.. i dont think any1 said you couldnt speak your mind.. i just completely disagreed with you..thats okay people dont have 2 leave over it..we can agree to disagree...

no your hurt feelings dont count in my mind because i dont see why you should be hurt at all..but if you wanna feel like that and leave the forum go ahead...

but i dont think you should leave at all..

thats my feelings...

my feelings at the moment are people can leave the forum if they want..but those remaining are gonna speak their minds and say what they think.. i think we should all know each other quite a bit now..so any disagreements we can deal with and move on.... the beauty of the pm dawn forum..is because pm dawns music is so diverse it brought in such a weird range of people..thats what i love..so i want every1 to stick around..and every1 to speak up!

I don't give any credence to Jason's hurt feelings towards women...at all. I have always felt that he was over-reacting. But...it's his life, and he has to live it! If he had said anything about Yvette, I would have called him on it...and if he had said anything about you or Sweet, I would have called him on that too!

OK...I'ma try something else...

I'm gonna put something in the Drama Room.

don't bother Coz, this is getting WAAAY out of hand...you people don't pay much attention to things do you? Sweet has a "no life" rank because that's one of the post count ranks, when you hit a number of posts it changes to "no life" it's one of the ranks we made over a year ago...This is the kinda stuff that I HATE about women, they can take nothing and turn it into a fucking disaster. You take something and dwell on it till you've got everyone pissed off about it then once everyone is in a bad mood like you then and only then are you happy...I don't know where the hell Sweet got invloved in this but if I remember correctlly I said a few things to her and didn't "carry out" an arguement because my goal wasn't to fight but to stand up for how "I" feel, which is the same thing you're doing right now.

you people get on here and have your talks about this, that, and everything else on on-topic...I don't bother you, but when I pop up somewhere to say my 2 cents HELL FUCKING NO, CENSOR HIS ASS

you have also yet to see that it's not the fighting/arguments that get me pissed off at you it's the shit after the fact that you don't want to drop...I bit my tounge and PM'd you to get things under control, then after things seemed to be clamed down, you turn around asking to be banned...that's pretty fucking stupid from my point of view, then again I'm not female so I don't need to create drama in my life so maybe I just don't see your point. oops look there's a female remark, but wait before you put a gun to my head re-read it...that remark is no different than the FREE SPEECH you have to get on here a talk/bitch about whatever...I also think it's sad you have to go cry about stuff on a forum, do you not understand that this is the internet?

thanks for also making it seem people are supporting me because I pay for this place...why don't I pull the plug on it? would that make you happy then?

PS so no one can call BS on the ranks here's a fucking screen cap of the admin panel