http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/paren...age-9-2480238/
I expect you all to study this carefully. There will be a test from Doc at his next show...
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http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/paren...age-9-2480238/
I expect you all to study this carefully. There will be a test from Doc at his next show...
Those were awesome...
WTF is up with #6? #11 is also a bit weird. #13 is bullshit. #21 is also. #25 is also a bit too much.
Etiquette Nazis!
#6 Agreed. #11 - Clearly if you are speaking to the intended person, why ask for them? You'll just be weird. #13 - Now, now liz. That's not lady like. #21 I agree with - as long as you are a fair parent who doesn't "ask" for "favours" all the time. #25 - depends on where the item is. What I want to know is, what's up with #23? You can tell a 5 yr old till you're blue in the face that they're not cutting a piece of food properly, but until they have the motor skills to do so, you would just be being a dick.
I think these are all pretty good.
#6 is about kids who complain all the time. I know a couple of kids like that. I don't want to be around them for long.
#11 is totally right on. The point is that kids (generally) don't have their own phones, so if you're calling someone, you should identify yourself. I always had to do that as a kid. "Hi, this is Chris, may I speak to Dustin, please?"
What do you find to be bullshit about #13? Or are you being ironic? If so, nicely done!
#21 - Yeah, I guess this one totally depends on what they ask the kid to do. But if it's their parent asking, they should do it.
#25 - Really, you have a problem with this? What's wrong with that?
Ian, I agree pretty much with everything you said (lawl).
Chris, I guess I'm just spoiled because I have great kids. I know that some kids out there could break these "rules" and seem like little shits, but my kids break these rules out of sweet innocence and freedom, not because they are little shits. First and foremost I encourage them to think of others. My kids are very polite, even if they don't adhere to old school etiquette. If my kids break these rules, they are quite likable and not annoying while doing so.
About #13, I let my kids swear. It's bullshit because it pretends adults dislike swearing and that you aren't impressing us by swearing. Adults love to swear and when I hear my son say "oh shit", it's all I can do to suppress my smile and laughter. I only do this so that he doesn't get some kind of kick out of swearing, and then do it all the time just to entertain (because that's annoying). I want their swearing to be genuine, and not based on any stigmas. Their swearing is actually quite rare and I find it's because I don't tell them such words are off limits or make them feel those words are somehow special or naughty. I want them to use language in sincerity and honesty.
#25-- I guess it's like Ian says, it depends on where the item is. I'd hate for them to knock over stuff trying to get it, and if that's the case, they should ask for help. But, that's common sense. There shouldn't be a "rule" about it.
A lot of this stuff sounds like "elbows off the table" stuff, which is really just not my style of parenting, at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
See, what's funny is that I have heard tons of people say this about their kids. And yet, their kids are totally annoying.
#6 is basically that there is a time and a place to complain, and kids do need to learn that.
#11 I agree 100% with Chris -- I always STILL say: Hi this is..., may I please speak to... when I call people. Because nothing is more annoying than people who call my house and assume I know who they are or bark out a name they want to speak to making me need to ask who they are.
#13 is because not everyone homeschools their kids. And if they get in the habit of cussing like a sailor all the time they will end up expelled with our 'zero tolerance' policies anymore. My friend handled it the best, in that she told her kids: "The secret to using grownup words is to never use them in front of grownups" which gave her kids license to curse, but not get written up in school.
#21 is because it's important to not whine and bitch all the time someone asks you to do something.
#25 is because not everyone find it adorable to have a 4 year old crawl across a table to get at the peas, knocking over wine glasses and spilling the peas in the process.
Once again, I'm being totally misunderstood when it comes to parenting.
I have people tell me all the time in public how well-behaved and quiet my kids are. I don't just brag on them out of sheer bias-- they are genuinely good kids and I ask myself every day how I got so lucky. In public or wherever, people are usually amazed. I get comments all the time on it. Now, I have to admit that Cian is entering a phase where he is definitely starting to be challenging, but I am still usually found surprising people.
Again, a lot of this shit is just common sense. There don't need to be any strict rules about any of this (like the four year old and the peas-- who does that? who allows that to happen? not because it's a "rule", but because a four year old knows to wait for some help with the peas, how to sit down politely and eat, or the mom steps in and says "let me help you with that, sweetie" rather than "you're breaking rule #25, you little shit!"). These rules assume chaos. I am all about order. My freewheeling hippie ways have people thinking anything goes. It doesn't-- I rule with common sense, and a sense of equality. My children are people, too, and they can make many choices for themselves without me having to be the big bad boss nonstop. And they do it with dignity and grace... they are quite well-behaved.
To specifically address the swearing, yes it does help that I homeschool. I always knew, however, that if my kids entered actual school and were caught swearing that I wouldn't care and they would not be disciplined for it. But, (and I'm repeating myself here) my kids rarely swear. In fact, most adults aren't even aware of the fact that I let my kids swear unless I tell them so. They aren't heard shouting obscenities at the playground or across a crowded store, and they have a sense of respect for others enough so that they seem to intuitively "get" that there's a time and a place for everything, including swearing. I, however, will not be mandating their speech to them. If any grown up has a problem with that, I've got some choice words for THEM. :)
In summation, I stand firm that my kids are some of the least annoying kids you will ever meet, and I promise I'm not just saying that because I'm their mother. I get praised for it all the time.
Mistress, could it just be that you find CHILDREN annoying? :)
No, because I know plenty of people whose kids are totally fine. I'm just saying that not every parent judges their own kids as accurately as they sometimes think they do.
Although I applaud your use of 'common sense,' not everyone has common sense to pass along to their kids. In which case, these kinds of rules DO need to be put out there. I don't think anyone is thinking that #25 is a good rule because it is a rule -- it's because you'd be surprised how many people DO NOT teach their kids to wait patiently for help rather than helping themselves. I personally would add rule #26: unless it is a Chuckie Cheese, don't let your kids run around a restaurant playing hide and go seek under the tables, screaming, tripping each other on the floor, and throwing a ball. I've had two dinners out in the last four months ruined because apparently some parents around here think that's totally o.k.
Oh, and when I went over to the parents to complain because their kid was hiding under my table and almost spilled their grape juice on my purse, they actually said to me: "Well no one ELSE has ever complained about our kids..." so case in point.
Doesn't everyone? "Why this?", "Why that?", "Can I?", "I don't want to".Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
What a pain in the arse! Who in their right mind would have kids?!
I turn the tables on my kids sometimes and when they made a statement I would ask "Why" or "How come?" over and over and over and over again. ad infinitum When they call "dad" now, but wait like 30 seconds to ask me a question, I call them by their name. When they ask "what?" I just keep repeating their name when they ask me again and again.
Bwahahahahahaah @Harm.
My kids would never do that, Mistress. In fact, my kids stay away from strangers and have a nice healthy fear of them. My husband and I are often appalled at other kids' behavior in public, like when a little girl stayed turned around in her seat while we were eating for the entire duration, staring at us. The only thing she ever spoke about was to brag that she makes her brother do everything when she sent him off to get her a drink. Then the kids proceeded to drink the liquid cheese they had apparently just ordered. All the while their parents were oblivious and could not even be bothered. I *almost* said something to the girl, but I was too polite. (grrr). So I basically allowed her to just stare at us eating the whole time. ARGH.
If only my wife would think it's funny. She tends to roll her eyes at me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
See, Liz, that's what I'm saying: just because YOU may have common sense and don't need a list of rules, many parents apparently DO.
Ugh, I hate when that happens to me at a restaurant. Sometimes I will make a mean face at them to get them to turn around. (I know that's terrible!) :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
The worst was when I flew one time and this retarded kid in the seat behind me kept touching my ears and head. I wanted SO BADLY to pop him a quick one just so he would leave me alone on the 3 hour flight. Everyone on the plane would have hated me!! I can't believe that someone would let a mentally retarded kid fly by himself. Unbelievable...
Yea....Tim's mom can be such an inconsiderate bitch like that.
Unsupervised!?!? Seriously! That's so unsafe and inappropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis85
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Which Tim though?
I can't stand annoying kids. I have zero problemo setting them and their parents straight.
nice! :lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Last night, we were fortunately wrapping up when the brat squad came in: first of all, who bring four little kids (all under 6-7) to a Thai restaurant at 8:30 pm on a Saturday night? Not shockingly, they couldn't seem to sit in their seats, the parents screamed at the staff for not having high chairs (it's not that kind of restaurant), the kids climbed on the chairs, laid across the chairs, tripped the waitress, and then started screaming while the parents wanted PLAIN chicken and rice PRONTO (did I mention it was a Thai restaurant?) I just don't get it, I don't get people. The place does take-out: if you're dying for Thai, send one parent to get the food and take it home. Or, well, I don't know, DON'T bring your little kids to an adult-oriented restaurant when it's obviously past their bed time much less their meal time...
Yeah, crazy, right? The poor woman who sat beside this kid tried her best to keep him in check. She was just an unrelated passenger trying to be a mother figure to the kid. He really didn't listen to her much. He just kept on bugging EVERYONE around him, but more me than anyone else. Crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
I understand your frustration at these particular people, but at your first sentence-- WE are those kinds of people. We have a large family of all young kids, and we occasionally go out to eat and wherever we go, our kids go. We are also night owls and often out late. Just because we are a family, I don't feel we should be shunned and limited to only certain areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
The difference between them and myself, though, is that my family and I are not as rude and demanding. I would never scream at wait staff (unless they did something out of line), and I would never let me kids complain and order people around like that in a restaurant of any kind. The other day we were trying out a new restaurant for lunch, and I had to pick everyone up and get out of there before we even ordered. As starving as we were, Cian was cranky (no nap? no food?) and he wouldn't stop loudly protesting everything with me. It was embarrassing. As soon as things get awkward or uncomfortable anywhere, I remove the kids as soon as possible. This is also how they learn to behave. If they'd really like to go places, and if they really want to eat some food, they'll quiet down and be proper or they'll have to leave. Unfortunately it's a lot trickier with a strong willed toddler like Cian... his emotions rule, and he's just really beginning to comprehend how his flying off the handle will effect his situation negatively. As mad as it makes me, I feel bad for him. But, he'll learn.
I take it your kids curse up and down the house then! :rotf:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
So you aren't teaching your children discretionary language. That's a mistake. A child should know how to discretely use language, it becomes an important life skill later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
*sigh* ever misunderstood.
Meet my kids sometime, and you'll understand. :P
Doesn't matter who the kids are or how good they are. Knowing when to curse and when NOT to is a crucial life lesson. :tiphat:
I went on a whole big ramble about this where I better described or defined us, but I feel like I'm kind of repeating myself so I deleted it. I was just giving a bunch of cute anecdotes which may not even be understood, so I'll keep it simple. My kids seem to understand when to use certain kinds of language, but they are not mandated as such. If we are in a store and my child falls down and says "shit", I have no problem with that. However, they're more likely to say "oh shucks", which I am both confused and amused by. If they are at a funeral and loudly tell a loved one to go fuck themselves, yeah, I'd step in... but that's so out of their characters that way-inappropriate behavior is not a concern of mine.
But, they aren't greeting people with "nice to fucking meet you!" (although... that would be funny...). And, if they're upset about someone, they're more likely to call them a meanie than an asshole. My biggest concern is they try to actually say what they mean and be fair. Don't call Mommy an asshole just because you are mad (yay, this hasn't happened). But, if some person just comes up and pushes you, I have no problem with you calling them an asshole. This is potentially where I would get calls from school (if they attended), and I would not punish my child for this. Everything is really on a case by case basis, but I rarely have to correct them for appropriateness. We are quiet and discrete people, and so far I'm really pleased with the way the kids choose to use their speech (right now they are 7 and 2). There is no stigma for them on what society deems as "bad words", and I think without that level of novelty attached, it will serve them well.
Get back to me when they are 17 and 12. :tiphat:Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizabethX
Will do! :P
it's fucken trueQuote:
Originally Posted by Cozmo D
I guess I don't think we all need some manners list to be appropriate enough.