has anybody noticed the passion of christ is running up against hellboy this week? :roll:
and am i the only one who thinks this is rather funny :lolbonk:
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has anybody noticed the passion of christ is running up against hellboy this week? :roll:
and am i the only one who thinks this is rather funny :lolbonk:
I can't wait for the numbers to come in...
Not Ironic! Someone sending a message...
Hellboy won by a large number this weekend.
PotC : $9.9 million (6th)
Hellboy: $23.5 million (1st)
However the opening week of the PotC brought in $83,848,082
Also ironic: I will see hellboy and not the Passion of the Christ. Why, you ask? I will see no rated R movies. tPotC is rated R, HellBoy is not.
It's a trip...
Hellboy that is!!!
Didn't waste my time with the box office smash movie hit "The Passion of the Christ"
Hey, where's the soundtrack? :blahblah:
Yall know Hell Boy is really a myth based on the B. P. R.D. a goverment agency that is supposedly taping into paranormal life. In WW II Hell boy was by some a real being that fought in the war. There are some pictures of "Hell BOy" It was supposed to be half human and of course devil. There was a picture of this creature and the army together in a squadron pictoral. Do some searching on the net and you may find some of these pics. It is rather interesting. Much like the Lochness monster. ;)
That is funny.
By the way, I saw The Passion of the Christ and found it to be very beneficial to me. I recommend it, especially for Christians.
I haven't seen Hellboy...yet!
This is 1 "Christian" who won't be going to see it. That movie is just a continuance of the Roman pollution and polliticization of a most pure and beautiful Middle Eastern relligious movement and enlightenment. Christ was about His messages and teachings, and His ressurection. Only a savage and brutal people like the Romans could take something so beautiful and holy and distort it into a worship of torture and death, and actually adopt the instrument of that torture as the symbol of THEIR religion!Quote:
Originally posted by cabotb@Apr 6 2004, 03:35 PM
By the way, I saw The Passion of the Christ and found it to be very beneficial to me. I recommend it, especially for Christians.
PHEH!!!
Coz, surely you can understand that the cross is not valued as a symbol of torture but for the ultimate sacrifice that Christ made for us.
And I think that’s the point that this movie makes: He suffered and died for us. That was His whole purpose in being born. Of course the teachings are to be valued, but this film really drives home His sacrifice, which was something that no one else can do.
The blood in the movie is not “cool,” like that of a Quentin Tarantino movie. It is horrifying, sure. But His blood is life. Isn’t that what Jesus said?
to go off a bit, tarantino, ive never really liked his movies, but I felt like in my teens there was a pressure to say u liked em cause they were "cool" because of the disregard of the main characters, and the violence etc.. the epitome of this being pulp fiction..lots of my mates would go on and on about it but i think it was too be cool , it seemed that way !
Mark has 16 chapters and only 1 and 1/2 are about Jesus' sufferings. Luke has 24 and only 1 and 1/2 are about His sufferings. John has 21 and only 2 are about His sufferings. Matthew has 28 and only 2 are about His sufferings.
What early Christian emphasis there was on the cross and the suffering of Jesus was to give strength to the early Christians as they too had to suffer. The cross was not an item of worship but a symbolic metaphor...something that all Christians had to "bear and carry", not bow down to.
The blood of Jesus' death was to wash away our sins according to the early Christians, not the blood shed at his torturings. His ressurection is what grants us eternal life. His teachings were our guideline of how to live, in order to receive this eternal life. All of this is clearly laid out in the Scriptures.
It was the Romans under Constantine, a pagan who lived 3 centuries after Jesus, that began to switch the emphasis from the life, death and ressurection of Jesus to the suffering of Jesus. It was Constantine who 1st made the cross a symbol of reverance, and used that symbol (though he adjusted it's appearance over time) as a rallying point for his conquest of the entire empire.
Think about it...the symbol that so many Christians revere was 1st used as a symbol of war, death, and destruction.
It was Constantine who championed the concept of The Trinity...forcing it's adoption throughout all Christendom. It was Constantine who forced all of the churches and Christian movements to buckle under to his new Roman Catholic (Universal) Church or be crushed...and he crushed many of them. Many, many Christians were tortured and/or slaughtered at his hand, all for the sake of his new state controlled religion.
It was Constantine who made it law that the entire empire...including all Christians...make their weekly day of worship the day of Constantine's most revered deity, Apollo The Sun God. This is because despite how much Constantine did to create and form the base of what almost all Christian churches follow to this very day, he remained a pagan until his death bed. EVERY SINGLE THING that he did in creating, shaping and forming the Catholic Church, he did FOR POLLITICAL REASONS. Almost the entirety of Christendom has been disobeying the 4th commandment ever since. In case you didn't know, Apollo has a name as well in the Judaeo/Christian tradition...Lucifer.
I could go on about this forever...but the bottom line is...you, Mel Gibson, and most of Christianity have been bamboozled by a 4th century pagan savage. He and his barbaric people took a movement of peace and love and made it one of hate, conquest and war. They took a side story of the gospels and made it the main event, and used that new main event as the catalyst to persecute the Jews (which Jesus, His apostles, and almost all of the early Christians were) for the next 1700 years!
I give less than a flying turd what was in Mel Gibson or anyone else's heart in making this film and continuing this sham. The fact that you think that 8 out of the 89 chapters of the Gospels were "His whole purpose in being born" or that His teachings are only "to be valued" drives home the depth of the deception.
Take away the tortures and you still have Christ's teachings, the sacrafice of His life through His death, and His ressurrection...the entirety of significance to the original Christians. Take away the teachings of Christ...which is exactly what the Catholic Church nearly succeeded in doing...and all you have is a murdered deity and a reason to take out your vengeance on an innocent people.
so clubbing baby seals is acceptable......i knew i was right
I may be ignorant to the facts...but I've attended services and have friends in just about every denomination of protestant and catholic churches, and they ALL focus on the life, death and ressurrection, not the suffering...once a year, most churches do focus on the suffering, for one night... nothing wrong with being reminded that he suffered and died...went to hell...so we don't have to...
Also...you mention that churches should focus on the life, death, and ressurrection, then went on to say we're bamboozled to focus on the gosples as the main event....
the gosples ARE the account of Jesus' life death and ressurrection - perhaps I just missunderstood what you meant there.
Now...all that Constantine stuff...AGREED...evil man...however...the Trinity may have been the term he coined, BUT....Matthew 28 "...Jesus just didn't give it the catchy name.Quote:
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
I just wanted to make those few points...all in all, I agree with you...Mel Gibson -- if he'd actually made a movie about the importance of the life, death and ressurrection, and not focussed on the suffering...he wouldn't have gotten the funding to make it in the first place...THATs just the nature of the world.
What the fijuk is a baby seal and ONCE AND FOR ALL WHAT IS A DANG HORSE DOG??????
It sounds like MIA HAMM A TOMBOY OR SOMETHING.....thick legs and muscley bootay cheeks that can crack a skull open. SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lolbonk: :lolbonk: :lolbonk: :lolbonk: :lolbonk: :confused:
No Brian, you misunderstood. I said the bamboozling was in taking a side story of the Gospels, that of Jesus' suffering, and making it the main event.
The passage that you quote is just a confirmation of the importance of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It does NOT claim them to be all one and the same...which is what the concept of The Trinity does. Constantine didn't invent or coin the phrase of The Trinity...he just forced it to be the only accepted concept where as before him it was actually in the minority.
I don't recall Jesus ever saying in the Gospels that He was God...or that He as God will be sending Himself as God in the form of the Holy Spirit.
Gee, Coz. Have you by chance ever written a research paper on this subject? :) I have not done the extensive research on Constantine that you have, so I will take your word for all of that.
So you understand where I’m coming from, let me modify what I said earlier. Christ’s whole purpose in being born was to save us from death and give us eternal life. The culmination of that process was His death and resurrection (which, in my opinion, was the ultimate miracle), which fulfilled the scripture. Please don’t diminish with the word “only,” the fact that I said Jesus’ teachings should be valued. It was simply my point to show where this film’s emphasis lies.
I do not believe the focus of this film – that of Christ’s suffering and death – gives any cinematic sanction for vengeance of any kind. There is no reason or logic to those kinds of acts.
Regardless of what happened in the 4th century, we “bamboozled” people today see the cross (usually with Jesus on it) as a sign of salvation, hope, and love, as well as a reflection of Christ’s teachings. And that is what matters. Just like, after seeing The Passion of the Christ, I came out with inspiration, love, and renewed faith. It's brutal to watch, but look at all the good that is coming out of it.
Perhaps the best point I can make is that I have seen the movie and so I can say for sure what I felt throughout and afterward.
Once upon a time I was well on the path towards being a spiritual leader of sorts...thus my life-long search for and love of the Truth. ;)
I'm sorry, but I disagree with your and most Christians' seeing of Jesus' reason for being crucified as to save us from sin and to give us eternal life. This was a concept that I feel wasn't even developed until Paul. If you remember in the Gospels Jesus doesn't even tell His followers about His impending death and ressurection until right before it is to happen. His reasons for it are to fulfill scripture. It is by following and believing in Him that He says one may gain everlasting life, and the only way to do that is by embracing His teachings.
The Catholic Church and many of it's successors have succeeded splendidly in drowning out the spirit and teachings of Christ with pollitical machinations such as passion plays...which is exactly what TPOTC is. If they had followed or revered the teachings of Christ they could NEVER wage war in his name, yet multitudes of millions more people have died under the cross than under the swatistika.
Perhaps Mel Gibson's focus (perhaps) was not on the sanctioning of vengeance, but it is exactly what passion plays were historicly and traditionally designed and created to do. Maybe if somebody were to redo "Birth Of A Nation" it wouldn't cause people to run out and lynch blacks either, but I would still find it dispicable.
I would also disagree with your contention that people see the cross as a sign of salvation, hope, love, or Christ's teachings. They see an item of worship, plain and simple. Let somebody desecrate that cross and see what happens.
The bottom line is...instead of worshiping God and following Jesus, which is what Jesus wanted, most Christians now worship Jesus and follow the church...which is what Constantine wanted. All this movie does is continue that, by placing reverance for Jesus' suffering way above reverance for his message and teachings.
And the only good I've seen come out of it so far is all that good money fattening Gibson's pockets.
Then you aren't looking hard enough. There is vast goodness of many kinds that has come about as a result of this film.Quote:
Originally posted by Coz@Apr 7 2004, 03:47 PM
And the only good I've seen come out of it so far is all that good money fattening Gibson's pockets.
The real bottom line is: Despite all your researched criticism, you still haven't seen this film.
Then you aren't looking hard enough. There is vast goodness of many kinds that has come about as a result of this film.Quote:
Originally posted by cabotb+Apr 7 2004, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cabotb @ Apr 7 2004, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Coz@Apr 7 2004, 03:47 PM
And the only good I've seen come out of it so far is all that good money fattening Gibson's pockets.
The real bottom line is: Despite all your researched criticism, you still haven't seen this film. [/b][/quote]
Can you name some of this "goodness"?
Oh...and I've never seen "Birth Of A Nation" either. ;)
I don't need a movie to aid me in my Christianity. :)
That's actually how I see it...and how the people at my church see it...that's why I wear one. Its a symbol of my faith, my love, and how I choose to live.Quote:
Originally posted by Coz@Apr 7 2004, 02:47 PM
I would also disagree with your contention that people see the cross as a sign of salvation, hope, love, or Christ's teachings. They see an item of worship, plain and simple. Let somebody desecrate that cross and see what happens.
I actually only see one good outcome from TPATC... even though it is showing the gruesome side-story as you put it...it has brought the religion itself to the attention of millions who never gave it though before...though it may be scewed...it may affect a lot of people in a positive way...kind of like a Christian heavy metal band...
im waiting to see it in the privacy of my own home....for one..i hate crowds..number 2...its very personal experience...plus im a cheap ass
That's actually how I see it...and how the people at my church see it...that's why I wear one. Its a symbol of my faith, my love, and how I choose to live.Quote:
Originally posted by BrianCCXXI+Apr 7 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BrianCCXXI @ Apr 7 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Coz@Apr 7 2004, 02:47 PM
I would also disagree with your contention that people see the cross as a sign of salvation, hope, love, or Christ's teachings. They see an item of worship, plain and simple. Let somebody desecrate that cross and see what happens.
[/b][/quote]
So, if I took a cross and put it in a glass of urine, it wouldn't mean anything to you?
my reaction would be no..it wouldnt mean anything to me...its not the cross that i worship...but i see where your coming from coz...i believe most people would be up in arms seeing that..when in essance (sp) it should be about his teachings and how you should live your life and how you treat others..and knowing he died for your sins....
one thing though...you get to fetch it out of the cup..:)
but on that same note..doesnt the bible tell you to respect others...what may be right for me..may not be right for others, kinda scenario
I think for every positive aspect there are also negatives. The continued anti-Jewish slant of the passion play, regardless of subtlety, is a major problem. From what I have read it also abounds with scriptural inaccuracies. Just to keep Chief on his toes, let me also point out the continued insistance of portraying Jesus, His apostles, the Jews, and all of the other inhabitants as European by race in a land that's a short walk from and traditionally and historicly dominated by Africa.Quote:
Originally posted by BrianCCXXI@Apr 7 2004, 04:52 PM
I actually only see one good outcome from TPATC... even though it is showing the gruesome side-story as you put it...it has brought the religion itself to the attention of millions who never gave it though before...though it may be scewed...it may affect a lot of people in a positive way...kind of like a Christian heavy metal band...
Again, my passions (no pun intended) are history and Truth, and knowing both behind all of the particulars of this movie I will NOT be spending my money to support it. I may 1 day watch it for free however, but hell, I'd watch Gigli for free too. ;)
Perhaps to make up to the Jews, Gibson could make his next project about the story of Job, but instead of dealing with the entire story and the message behind it, he could just spend 2 1/2 graphic hours on his boils affliction. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
RACISM
OH..and for you newbies who dont know...i call out racism whenever Coz is oppressing my people...
I agree with everything you say here Chief, except the last part. I think the "Christ died for our sins" thing probably comes from Paul. It's never made any sense to me. Christ LIVED for our sins, and died so that He could rise again, and thus prove to us that He was indeed sent by God...and His Word is holy.Quote:
Originally posted by Chief Cwictocilacitee@Apr 7 2004, 05:35 PM
my reaction would be no..it wouldnt mean anything to me...its not the cross that i worship...but i see where your coming from coz...i believe most people would be up in arms seeing that..when in essance (sp) it should be about his teachings and how you should live your life and how you treat others..and knowing he died for your sins....
one thing though...you get to fetch it out of the cup..:)
point well taken...see..i can learn sumtin
Not sure what you're getting at here Kimosabee? :dunno:Quote:
Originally posted by Chief Cwictocilacitee@Apr 7 2004, 05:36 PM
but on that same note..doesnt the bible tell you to respect others...what may be right for me..may not be right for others, kinda scenario
hehehe...yeah..after i reread that, i thought...wtf were you getting at...LOL...i know what i was meaning, but it went deeper into the question that it needed too..
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:Quote:
Originally posted by Chief Cwictocilacitee@Apr 7 2004, 06:02 PM
RACISM
I can always count on you Chief! :roll:
This is where the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints differs from a lot of other Christian faiths as well. Did Christ suffer for our sins? I believe that he did. Was it on the cross? No.Quote:
Originally posted by Coz@Apr 7 2004, 06:07 PM
I agree with everything you say here Chief, except the last part. I think the "Christ died for our sins" thing probably comes from Paul. It's never made any sense to me. Christ LIVED for our sins, and died so that He could rise again, and thus prove to us that He was indeed sent by God...and His Word is holy.
So here comes the doctrine, agree or disagree, that's your choice. Several hours before Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, he went to the garden of Gethsemane to pray. Each Gospel gives a slightly different account of what happened here, (in fact John barely touches it) both because each was written by a different person and for a different intended audience. They all agree that Christ went into the garden to pray. It is here where He paid the price for our sins. It was here that He took upon Himself all the sorrow and pain we ourselves will need to experience in order to be forgiven. What happened was more than just a philosophical idea as well, Christ "sweat ... as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:44). Metaphysically speaking, for a man to sweat one drop of blood is a freaking lot of pain. Enough to put you out even. However, Christ is a God. He was able to endure. It's because of this suffering (in the garden) he can act as our advocate before God at Judgement, not because of what happened on the cross.
Don't get me wrong, His death on the cross was important, but the Garden of Gethsamane was more so. He is the only person who had the power to resurrect Himself. No one else could have done that. And because of that we will all (every single one of us, regardless of how "good" or "bad" we are) will be resurrected. This gift is for free to everyone, irregardless of what they have done. Of course if you're good, you get to be resurrected first, there has to be some benefit for obeying the commandments :) (OK, there are others as well, I'm just poking fun at myself)
I'm with Coz on this one though, I'm not going to see the movie, if for slightly different reasons. Glorifying that particular portion of His life on the "big screen" is unimportant to me. Reading is always better than a movie anyways, it lets you experience it as you individually are meant to experience it (through the promptings of the Spirit). Even if it was free, though, it's still rated R. I made a vow never to see a rated R movie (nope, not even Matrix or Blade, both of which I *really* want to see), and that's still true. It'll be true till the day I die.
got to hand it to ya harm....thats quite a task youve taken there man...
see..its all in the interpretation.....
I've done it off an on for my whole life, and full time for two years. I think I'm up to it.
I won't Bash (Harm's dictionary - Bash: to argue back and forth over interpretation of scriptural passages or points of doctrine where neither side will agree that the other has a point), that serves no purpose. But on any given point of doctrine, I'll do my best to explain what I believe is right and back it up with scripture as necessary.
Again whatsA HORSEDOG>>>>>MIA HAMM???? THE SOCCER PLAYER?? MUSCELY WOMEN??
Coz, I could go around the Web and compile a list of the many good things, but I'm home from work and feel too lazy now. I'll leave it up to you to seek out if you think I'm making it up to help my argument.Quote:
Originally posted by Coz@Apr 7 2004, 04:45 PM
Can you name some of this "goodness"?
Oh...and I've never seen "Birth Of A Nation" either. ;)
I don't need a movie to aid me in my Christianity. :)
And a viewing of The Passion wouldn't be an aid for your faith but for your critique of the movie. Just think if someone bemoaned a new P.M. Dawn album here and later admitted they hadn't even listened to it! Yikes!
On a related tangent, did anyone see the documentary on the Shroud of Turin tonight? It was on the PBS eqivalent (Channel 13 in New York). Very thought-provoking, curiosity-arousing stuff.
ARGHHHHH :madrant:
I didn't see any of that but i did see a damn fine special on the Hindenburg. It's was pretty interesting all the way around. Nothing like big exploding Zeppelins with Nazi symbols on them to rope you in. Don't know what the show was called but it was on public broadcasting and it was all chock full of interesting things...
like.....The designer of the Hindenburg wanted NO PART of the Nazi symbols on the blimp but was forced. He also made sure to have the zeppelin named and placed on quickly because he did not want the blimp to be named -The Adolf Hitler-
See what happens when Lum finds a station he shouldn't....he learns.....