Like you don't!:fingas:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
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Like you don't!:fingas:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Socialism is what made our society the most powerful in the world in the 1950's. It was welfare for the middle class with the New Deal Social Security, G.I. Bills, scholarships for education, public schools, gov't subsidized housing loans, etc etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief
Conservatives always want to go back to the morality of the 1950's but what about the financial security? I'd rather have that.
Also, studies have shown that the happiest people in the world live in socialist countries cause they don't have to worry about anything. No one worries about retirement, school, getting sick, housing, or food. You go to work everyday, and whatever you take home is yours to do whatever you want with because all the big stuff is taken care of. Wouldn't that be nice rather than having to worry about a downturn in the economy meaning that you lose your house, your health insurance, retirement, everything?
hows life in that utopian world treating ya? :haha::haha: That's good in theory but it's never gonna happen..At least if there were direct consequences for people's behavior it might force it might make them a little more responsible. Also if people cut out all the junk food they buy..chocolates, chips, biscuits, snacks etc they might actually find they save money.. vegetables are also reasonably cheap at least compared to fruit..lentils are cheap and healthy.. There is a lack of responsibility for oneself actions in society these days..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
dont people tend to pass on bad health and cuisine habits ?
education education education .
:D
Lentils are cheap and healthy if you have four hours to cook them. And BTW, living on beans and rice is one of the ways people end up obese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero1
Vegetables are not reasonably cheap compared to junk food in poorer neighborhoods. For 99 cents you can get two tomatoes or an entire bag of chips. If you're poor and you need that 99 cents to last you all day, which are you gunna pick? Fresh vegetables in my neighborhood are at a premium price. I spend 28 dollars a week to have a barely adequate supply of fresh fruit and vegetables in my house. Plus I still have to take hours to prepare them and cook them. For the same price, you have a weeks worth of McDonald's meals already prepared for you.
Further, you and Chief are really into the "personal responsibility" crap, but you're presupposing that everyone's pre-frontal cortex (the later developing part of the brain which is what makes you an "adult" able to make long-term decisions, see consequences to actions, and act responsibly) develops the same in all human beings, when EVERY neurobiological study indicates otherwise. Trauma studies have shown that children who grow up malnourished, neglected, or abused do not end up with a fully developed pre-frontal cortex. People with mental illnesses also have a lower functioning pre-frontal cortex which is why their behavior doesn't "fit in" with the rest of society. Middle class mores and values only work when you give people a middle class nutritional lifestyle from the get go. You can't expect children raised on junk food to then turn around as an adult and have the wherewithall to make different food choices.
Further, becuase of the extremely high diabetes rates, many people by the time they are adults in poor neighborhoods are already pre-diabetic if not diabetic before they are old enough to make their own food decisions. And that's going to affect your food choices. The diabetic body will crave starches and sugars. If you don't have the money for proper medical care to recognize, treat, and help the disease, you're just going to go on with your life and eat what you crave -- high caloric, starchy, junk food. Becuase it feels "right" to your body to do that.
I think you need to go to the poorest town in Australia and go to the supermarkets. See the prices, see the selection. Realize that if you're working two jobs to make ends meet, you only have about 15 minutes when you get home to prep your dinner and eat it, and you can only afford to spend about $20 on groceries. And with those constrictions, I'd like to see you eat for a month and see how healthy it is.
I'm not the one living in utopia. You're the one who is just assuming that everyone has the background, money, and choices you have.
Ive hooked a big one here...someone get the net!!!!!
No, I think you've forgotten what the original argument was.. I'm talking about the Governments responsibility to pay for all the health services as a result of an overburdened health system due to lifestyle choices, and preventable diseases.. what if they just didn't pay for middle class and above's medical bills? would that make you happy
No, I just don't understand why we have to make healthcare into a moral soapbox where some people get to have healthcare and otehrs don't based on some people's idea of whether or not that person is "good" or "bad."
If a person is sick they should be able to get medical help. If the bigget killer of people is stress, are we going to kick successfull people out of the healthcare system too? What about soldiers -- most of their healthcare needs are job related, isn't that a lifestyle choice? Why pass judgment instead of just helping people?
Because I pay such high health insurance premiums AND because there are so many people I've encountered who can not quite afford health insurance, it's pretty difficult not to get incensed by others' constant, destructive health choices.
On the other hand, it's quite obvious that a lack of knowledge is a major factor in said destructive health choices.
Sometimes, when we go to Wal-mart, I play Count The Fat People with my son. It's horrible-sounding,yes, but it spurs from a conversation we once had after I was trying to explain to him about how people who haven't been taught how to eat properly tend to get really fat. (He 'rebels' against me by refusing to eat anything labeled as organic and has embraced junk food.)
It's quite disturbing, actually, to see how many obese poor people there are.
And just to further add to how politically incorrect I am with my kid, I also openly declare just how embarassed teen girls with babies should be, whenever I see one. And how embarassed the babies' fathers should be, too.
Here's another: I get pissed-the-fuck-off whenever one of my students gets sick over and over. I'm not talking about any sickness which they have no control over, I'm talking about getting sick all the time because of poor choices (not sleeping enough, eating crap food all the time, not getting enough water, licking or sucking on their dirty fingers).
Its too costly? get it??? The numbers of sick people are rising.. We can't afford to pay for everyone.. there is an obesity epidemic.. I'm not suggesting we tell anyone how to live.. if you wanna smoke, drink do drugs eat junk food do whatever u want..just dont expect the govt rest of society to pay for your choices!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
Well Said! :rock:Quote:
Originally Posted by wendyful04
It's just in one ear and out the other with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero1
Ok, so under your system:
How do we determine culpability in health problems? If we know that alcohol is a major contribuotr to diabetes, then anyone who has ever chosen to drink should be nixed from the system. How about anyone who ahs ever eaten sugar, since that causes diabetes, too. And if you've ever eaten fast food or fried food, that could have contributed to heart disease so those people should also be kicked out.
And let's not forget salt. Salt is a huge factor in hypertension, and hypertension contributes to heart disease. So anyone who eats salt regularly should definitely not be covered.
How about exercise? we know that exercise can help reduce health problems, so anyone choosing not to exercise at least 3 times a week for an hour or more should also be kicked out.
And let's not forget people who make the lifestyle choice to have babies. Babies and all the related healthcare costs are really expensive, and no one has to have children. Pregnancy can cause weight gain, hypertension, heart disease, and diabetes. That's a lifestyle choice we should kick people out on too.
And stress. Good old stress is the number 1 cause of health related problems, espeically heart disease. So anyone who chooses to have a stressfull job should definitely not be covered. That means people in the army, the police, firefighters, wall street executives, or any other stressfull job. Those people are a serious drain on the system and they should be taken out of it.
So now, for the five yogi-organic-vegetarian-yuppies left on the system, there'll be plenty of money in case they need it. :fingas:
Might I also add that since this is a forum based around two hard-working guys who have brought all of us a lot of pleasure in our lives, one of whom happens to be overweight and diabetic, it's pretty nasty that as far as you're concerned he should die on the street because he'd be a drain on your precious tax dollars.
wow
Very interesting point, Mistress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
She boiled your onion Tim! :lmao:
Today on the news there is a 10 year old girl who needs open heart surgery and her operation has been delayed 5 times because our hospital/health system is in such a mess.. whats your solution mistress??? you just seem to be arguing against my point rather than coming up with a viable alternative..
My solution is to invest more money into the system, recruit more students to go into medicine, clean up the system. Not to kick people out of it.
and where are you getting that money??Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistress M
Why is it in such a mess? Got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero1